Our Oscar Award-Winning Episode

[EPISODE]

[00:00:11] OS: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Enjoy the Vue. I'm Oscar. Today on our panel, we have Alex.

[00:00:17] AR: Hello.

[00:00:18] OS: Tessa.

[00:00:19] T: Hi.

[00:00:21] OS: Our special guest for today is me. Yeah, it's the Oscarsode. We're actually going to talk about me, and how I got into JavaScript and Vue, and everything else I've been up to. Hopefully, folks are interested in that.

[00:00:35] AR: I know I am.

[00:00:35] T: Do you have a lot going on, Oscar, in your life?

[00:00:38] OS: Oh, I have so much going on in my life, which conveniently, I was just joking about this, that I effectively have two jobs right now. I have my full-time job that I do during the day. Then I also manage an open-source project, which is effectively a full-time job. Anyone who feels like it's not a full-time job, oh, boy, it is. It most certainly is. I have all that going on. I'm down. Besides that, I used to do consulting, and that effectively was a third job. I'm very happy with my two jobs now. Yeah, I've got a lot going on in my life. That's definitely true.

[00:01:16] T: I feel like, jobs, like to be a job, it has to pay, even if it's Final Fantasy money, or something. Does open-source pay?

[00:01:26] OS: Oh, that's probably a whole episode all by itself. I will say, my project is lucky enough that we are funded. We've gotten funding from big organizations, like Microsoft, smaller organizations. We're very lucky in that sense. For all you open-source people out there who still are not getting paid, I definitely feel for you. It all happened quick. Because before this year, we made $0, just like every other open-source project in existence. Then all of a sudden, it's like, “Oh, hey. We have money now to send people to conferences, and I can pay people on the team to do work.” It's amazing. It's the dream for everyone. Hopefully, all of you open-source maintainers out there, you're going to make it. I promise. You'll make it. Just keep trying.

[00:02:17] T: When do you move to Singapore?

[00:02:19] OS: Oh, that's a fantastic question. No meme, I'm actually interested in that. I thought, where in the world would I want to live? I think, Singapore is a spot. I've met Evan – Have I met Evan twice? Ooh, I have met Evan twice. I've met Evan twice, so we're basically best friends.

[00:02:42] T: Absolutely. You’re like, practically, brothers.

[00:02:45] OS: Exactly.

[00:02:46] T: Godfather to his kids.

[00:02:50] OS: I don’t think – Yeah, my life story. I was a wee little boy born in a log cabin.

[00:02:59] T: Wait. Really?

[00:03:00] OS: That's not true at all. No. No, I was born in a hospital.

[00:03:05] AR: Was that four score and seven years ago, approximately?

[00:03:09] T: It's funny you say that, because whenever I hear log cabin, I immediately think Lincoln Logs.

[00:03:17] OS: Lincoln Logs are dope. Bring them back.

[00:03:19] T: So good.

[00:03:20] OS: Lincoln Logs, connects. All of that. Please.

[00:03:23] AR: Connects. That is the bomb.com.

[00:03:27] T: Connects are too fiddly for me. I always got irritated.

[00:03:32] OS: I love them for some reason. I don't know. They're just super fun. Yeah, I was born in South Florida. I am your friendly local Florida man. I no longer reside there, but it's all good. I still have that spirit in me. It's a little rough. That's why a lot of folks feel they can't quite pin my accent, just because it's like a northeast accent, except we just call things different things around people.

[00:04:05] T: Yeah. After your second episode with us, after the recording ended, Ari and I were like, “So where are you from Oscar? Because I noticed you said 10.”

[00:04:13] OS: Yeah. That's actually one of those things that I've tried to work on a little bit. Because I have one of my friends, his name is Ben. I would call him Bin. He would be like, “Hey, you know my name is Ben, right? It's Ben.” I’m like, “Oh, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Ben. It's Ben.” He's like, “Nope.” I’m like, “Oh, okay.” Which is really fun. It's fun, because overall, I thought I didn't pronounce things too weirdly. That is one of the ones, like the when, when. It's so difficult for me to say that. Yeah.

[00:04:48] T: I feel like, most people would understand though. That reminds me of a co-worker I had a couple years ago that was like, “You know, I used to say pen and pin different, but I worked on it. Now I can say pin and 10, and they sound distinct.” We were like, “What are you talking about?” It was such a sad moment.

[00:05:08] OS: Because you really think you're trying like this –

[00:05:10] T: Yeah. He thought he is something.

[00:05:13] OS: I'm not trying to docs myself, but somewhere in my neighborhood, there's a restaurant called Zen. I've tried really hard to say Zen, instead of Zin. It's really difficult. Anyway, I'm working on it. I'll get better. If I ever want to be a speaker. If I ever want to host a podcast, I’ll have to work on it.

[00:05:33] T: That is one of the criteria we have on our vetting list.

[00:05:37] OS: Absolutely.

[00:05:38] AR: Wait, how do I get past that vetting list then? I don’t –

[00:05:40] T: I don't know. That was a mistake.

[00:05:43] AR: Yeah. It’s the blue hair that threw you off.

[00:05:48] OS: I love it. Yeah. I mean, that's how most kids work out. I mean, I got into technology, sort of the way I feel a lot of people do. Just playing around with computers, and just having a good time. My dad doesn't work in anything software related or whatever, but back in the day in his office, he had some old computers and on take your kid to work day, I sit in his office and I take apart the computers, and I put them back together. I was like, “Oh, this is cool. Look at these computers.” I learned about all the parts and everything. That was cool. Except, one day, I hit the point where I was like, I don't really know how computers work. I can click on stuff on my screen and move stuff around, but I don't understand how that works. I went to Yale library. Remember those? Those were pretty cool, right? I went to library. I picked up Java for Dummies.

[00:06:46] T: I was going to say, was it a for dummies that you got started in. Anyway.

[00:06:51] OS: Yep, absolutely. It was Java for Dummies. Another book I checked out at the time, I'm just remembering this now. I also got Ajax for Dummies. That's not a very good, I'm going to learn programming —

[00:07:07] T: I mean, it revolutionized the web.

[00:07:09] OS: It sure did, but it's probably not a good first book thing. Yeah, I worked my way through Java for Dummies. I was raised in Java programs, which is really fun. Actually, one of the first, I'll call it serious programs I worked on, this was around the time, I was in maybe middle school, was a blackjack game, which I didn't realize it would be foreshadowing how much I like to gamble as an adult. That’s super funny. Yeah, I did that. I coated on little projects and stuff throughout middle school and high school, which was a lot of fun.

I got to college. One of the cool things about where I went, I went to Northeastern University. They're working with some other universities on different ways to teach people programming. They use a programming language called Racket to teach everyone. If you don't know about Racket, it's a scheme-like language. In fact, it used to be called PLT scheme. They had a text editor called Doctor Scheme. This was sick.

Yeah. I mean, for me, I had spent much of my time coding Java, maybe a little bit of C, stuff like that. Then coming to a language like that was very different and bizarre, and I didn't know how to do it. I love that. I love that, because my college experience was everyone coming in and suddenly be putting on a level playing field. I didn't have a huge advantage, because a ton of programming that I did. In fact, I didn't get good grades in my first few assignments, because they were like, “Nah, we're going to completely reteach how you think about programming.” I thought that was cool.

One of my fun experiences in the class was they had taught us this design recipe. It’s like, “Oh, this is how you design a program.” The professor, it was like, “Okay, we're going to write this function, and you got to use the design recipe.” They're like, “Okay, Oscar. Write this function.” I just naively wrote it, just any way. Didn't follow the design recipe. He was like, “Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. All right, class. We're going to altogether go through the design recipe and write this function.” Then they did that. It's like, “Now, we're going to run both of them and see the performance of them.” My professor roasted me in front of the whole class and how mine was some horrible in huge implementation of something, or whatever. Yeah. I mean, just really put me in my place. That's great. That was awesome.

I have that humbling experience early on. Really shaped who I am now, which I think is really good. Yeah, after that, that was when the JavaScript came in. I don't know how it happened. I think, I've always been interested in design and things like that, so I cared a lot more about how the applications I was working on looked. How does this thing look? I'm actually interested in going and learning CSS and HTML. That's how I started my front-end journey, just reading a ton of JavaScript.

Around that time, React had just started getting popular a little bit. Actually, even stepping back before that, my first job out of college, I was writing Backbone. Do you guys like Backbone? How do you feel about Backbone?

[00:10:24] AR: I have never had the opportunity to actually use it.

[00:10:26] T: I mean, it keeps you sitting up straight.

[00:10:31] OS: Yeah, it sure does. Yeah. I mean, Backbone was the backbone of how we did it, and stuff happened. That was dope. After that, we transitioned over to writing React and I was a React developer for a number of years. Tessa, you're probably wondering, was I one of those React developers?

[00:10:50] T: That look like Ari?

[00:10:55] OS: No. Not the ones that look like Ari. One of the ones that for the viewers out there, I want you to imagine me pushing my glasses up the bridge of my nose, my like, “Oh, yes. I'm going to write the most performant, functional component I possibly can.”

[00:11:11] T: I mean, the trick is to do everything with a reduced function, right? If you can't express anything you need with [inaudible 00:11:18].

[00:11:23] OS: Yeah. I mean, I was super into all the really technical details of how does this stuff actually execute? How does it do all these things? Which was really interesting, because I did that for a number of years before switching companies and starting Vue for the first time. I remember the first day on the job, I was chatting with a senior engineer, and I was like, “Yeah, my background is all React. What's the translation of Vue?” He sat me down and telling me all this stuff. He's like, “Yeah, you got to write a template.” I'm like, “A template?” I’m like, “What? What year is it? We're in templates?”

I think, after having written a lot of JavaScript code, I came to realize, I actually want something that's boring in that sense. I want something that just work. I'm not really trying to be super clever about every single thing that I need to do. I got to get some stuff done. There's a lot of other things that could be focusing my energy on. That's what made me grow to really love Vue, was just seeing how simple it was for me to get something up and working. Just how easy it was to onboard me and other developers who are coming on to the team. That stuff was awesome. Truly, truly awesome. I loved it.

That's what made me start getting a little bit more involved. I mean, that plus, at this time, I was working at a company called Tidelift, which if you haven't heard of Tidelift, they are working on the open-source sustainability problem. It all comes full circle. Yeah, they're working on getting maintainers paid. They sell a product that gives assurances around open-source software, and they actually pay some that revenue back out to the maintainers. That's how I actually ended up meeting a lot of folks in the Vue community was just because there's a lot of maintainers. I got opportunities to chat with him on different things. That's how I met Evan the first time, which is really cool. I remember –

[00:13:18] T: Not the second time.

[00:13:19] OS: Not the second time. I remember getting in trouble, because I was like, “Yo, Evan.” We were chatting about whatever. Then I was like, “Can I get a photo?” One of my co-workers was like, “No. Never ask the players for a photo.” I was like, “Oh, no.” That's sad.

[00:13:41] T: I remember when the Vue documentary came out, and there was footage of people asking him to sign their conference badges. I was like, “That's a thing?”

[00:13:51] OS: Oh, it sure is. Because especially for me, and I mean, I haven't even talked about the open-source part of stuff that I work on. For someone to have this vision for their project, not just from a technical perspective of building something, some technology that people really want to use that help solve real problems, but also, having the vision to properly market it and make it – grow into something huge. There's a fair number of projects that are just really good, and they end up catching on, but there's also a fair number of projects that they really catch on, because the people working on them have that grander vision. They have that idea.

[00:14:31] T: A design recipe.

[00:14:33] OS: Yeah. Exactly. Having those thoughts of how they want to grow something and build something, and especially, building a community. Yeah. I definitely had a lot of respect for Evan and everything he was able to do. I think, while I was at Tidelift, maybe right when I started, that's when Evan went full-time on Vue. I think, somewhere around that time. Yeah, it was just really inspirational to see someone able to actually achieve that. I was like, yeah, I want to do that for my own open-source projects.

Which brings me to my open-source projects. Yeah, when I was in college, one of the things I was really interested in was programming languages, me just being a nerd. I was taking a compilers course, and just learning how to build a compiler for simple languages and stuff.

[00:15:21] AR: As you do.

[00:15:21] OS: As you do. As you do.

[00:15:22] AR: As you do.

[00:15:23] OS: Right. For the final project in the course, our professor is like, “Oh, you can add any interesting feature you feel like to the language and that’s your final.” Me and my partner decided, I was really pushing for it, because I really wanted it. We decided, hey, let's actually take our compiler, which compiled to Intel processors X86, and instead, let's have it compiled to WebAssembly. Because WebAssembly was the new, great hotness in the web world. This was 2017. WebAssembly was now on by default in all the major browsers.

There's so much hype around like, oh, is WebAssembly going to replace JavaScript to do all of this? Which was interesting, and I was super onboard. I was like, “Oh, yeah. Let's go. Let's really build something here.” Yeah. We worked on that. That became the open-source project grain that I continue to work on to this day. It's a hard battle, working on a programming language. A lot of the, I guess, toxic parts that you see in open source of people arguing about projects and things like that, when you start bringing that to the language level, and just people having opinions on what your language should do, oh, my goodness, it can really get to you for sure.

Yeah. I mean, largely, now, I'm working on building that project, trying to build a community around that, really modeling it after a lot of what I've seen in the Vue community. All the incredible people who just are interested in learning, and helping each other out, which is something I just don't see in a lot of tech communities. I just really don't. If I can build something that's a fraction of, as nice and kind as people are in the Vue community, I'll be super-duper happy. Yeah, it's a lot.

[00:17:17] T: One thing I'm curious about that isn't really related to anything important, I guess, is that when you are in college, you do have to do the whole writing code on paper thing?

[00:17:28] OS: Not really. The only class I think that we had to write “code on paper” was algorithms class, but it wasn't really about the code. It was more about the –

[00:17:41] T: Design recipe?

[00:17:43] OS: Yeah. It's more about like, yeah, what are you trying to do here? Okay. I think, the only times we really even had to do that was on exams, where it was like, they give you a sheet of paper, and they're like, “Well, I need you to write some down. Just write out the steps of how you solve this problem.” Luckily, I didn't have to deal with any of that. We were super, I guess, progressive in that sense. One of my professors built his own testing software, so all of our exams were using the software that he wrote. I mean, it was good software. It worked really well.

[00:18:18] T: Okay. There was going to be some pause.

[00:18:21] OS: No, it was really well. It had hot reloading, but for whole lab students. During an exam, someone had pointed out that something was broken. Our professor just edited the code and redeployed it live to everyone taking the exam. That was super dope. I was super impressed with my professor. He's super cool. Shout out to Ellie Barzilai. He's amazing. I wonder what he's doing these days. Back in those days, I remember he was working on the TypeScript compiler. I wonder if he's still doing that. I should reach out to him, because be like, “Hey.”

[00:18:50] T: Back in those days, four whole years ago.

[00:18:52] OS: Four whole years ago. Four score – Yeah. Yeah, I’d be like, “Hey, I work in a compiler now. Can we be friends?” That'd be sweet. Yeah, in fact, the professor whose class it was that we started our project in, ran into him on the street randomly a few years ago. It's funny, because he actually asked about the project. He was like, “Oh, how's that thing going that you were working on?” I were like, “Oh, yeah. It's going pretty well.” At the time, we had 1,200 GitHub stars or something like that. We're like, “Yeah, we got 1,200 GitHub stars.” To see his face, the look on his face, just be like, “Are you serious. That garbage project? Really?” Because he works on a real programming language, which I think we had more stars than that, which was really, really funny. Just funny how these things end up working out. Yeah.

[00:19:52] T: I’m so amused of the vision of you, taking apart and then putting back together all the computers at your dad's place, followed by the statement, “I don't know how computers work.” Imagine it and everybody got to work the next day and be like, “Why doesn’t this turn on?”

[00:20:11] OS: Yeah. I mean, it was so interesting, because I could read books and stuff, and I could read about all the different computer parts. The thing was, I felt so smug with it, too. I was like, “Oh, yeah. I know how computers work.” Oh, if someone asked me, “Yo, how did computers work?” I got you, until the day I realized that I had no freaking clue, whatsoever.

[00:20:35] AR: Definitely, I have made the mistake of asking my father like, how does the computer work? Getting a four-hour lecture on well, when you press the power button, what happens is that – The entire sequence, up to the point where you're using the computer. It was like, “I didn't need that, but okay.”

[00:20:55] OS: Yeah. No, I'm super guilty of that. Because I think my interest in compilers largely stemmed from me just trying to keep going deeper and deeper into understanding computers, to the point where putting them together, to writing software, to understanding the programs that allow us to write software. Yeah, if someone asked me, “Yo, how do computers work?” Well, you're going to get a lecture, a lecture and a half that no one wants to hear. That's certainly true.

[00:21:26] T: You're into computers at work, and then afterwards at your second job, and also as your hobby. In all of your infinite free time outside of those things, who is Oscar? What does he do?

[00:21:40] OS: That's a fantastic question. A lot of my friends will say that I'm just the grain guy. When I did get a chance, I like consuming –

[00:21:50] T: Grainfather.

[00:21:51] OS: Yeah, the Grainfather. When I do get a chance, I love just relaxing and playing simple video games, stuff like that. For example, fun fact about me, I am really into mobile games. Really into mobile games, sort of like back in the day. For you people out there who know what Tetris Blitz is, just hit me up, write me an email and be like, “Oh, yeah. I was super into Tetris Blitz.” Yeah, I was super into Tetris Blitz. I love that game. Where it was basically Tetris, but fast. You probably guessed that, of that being what it was.

I just remember, because I would just destroy all my friends in that game, just all over the place. I remember I went on YouTube one day, and I just searched the game to see like, “Oh, I want to see people's high scores and whatnot.” Some guy had this video that had a ton of use, and it was over 1 million high score. I was like, “Huh, my highest score ever is over 4 million.” I was like, “Wait, am I good at this game?” Then yeah, they launched global tournaments that you could play every day. Yours truly for a single day was the world champion in Tetris Blitz. That made me feel good. It’s like, there's that. There's another game that's MetalStorm: Online, which was a iPad flight simulator game, or fighter pilot game. I managed to hit top 100 in the world in that game.

I just like the mobile games. I just take them super seriously for whatever reason. Yeah, fight me in any first-person shooter, or anything like that and you will destroy me. Those are not my games. Can't do it. This just doesn't work out. I'm sorry. Older mobile games.

[00:23:34] T: But apparently, Overcooked, too. We're in trouble.

[00:23:38] OS: Oh, anybody want to come at me for some Overcooked, you will get messed up. However, if you are phenomenal at Overcooked, also hit me up, because we can work on a team and we can set some new records. Oh, yeah, I love Overcooked, one and two. Did they launch holiday DLC for this year?

[00:24:03] T: I don’t think I saw anything.

[00:24:04] OS: They had holiday DLCs for the first one. Those were fun.

[00:24:09] AR: That is a game that just looks like, it would stress me out. I don't feel that's a game that I would enjoy, because I would just be there like, “Ah.”

[00:24:16] T: The last time I played multiplayer, we didn't cook anything, because everybody else was just like, “I'm not going to try to beat the other team by getting my stuff done. I'm going to try to win by freaking going to the other kitchen and throwing all their plates on the floor.” Their food burn. Just blocking the way to the output conveyor belt thing, where you put all the final dishes.

[00:24:44] OS: Yeah, it's so much fun. Either playing that, or trying to actually assemble all the dishes and get them out the door. Both are super fun. I think, it was because growing up, one of my favorite Flash games was Hot Dog Bush, which is, it's a game where you are George W. Bush, and you've completed your presidency, you're down on your luck.

[00:25:08] T: As you do.

[00:25:10] OS: He starts selling hotdogs. It's a hotdog stand. I mean, you got to do all the hotdogs and you earn some money, you start selling burgers. It's one of those games. I loved that. Then of course, all the mobile games, which right now, I believe the most popular cooking game on mobile is Cooking Fever, which is really good. I don't really like how much they added payment to that game, because obviously, they're trying to make money and that's fine. I'll pay you a couple bucks or whatever, but they're like, “Oh, you want this new restaurant? $50.” I'm like, “Relax.”

[00:25:46] T: $50 for a restaurant.

[00:25:49] OS: I’m like, “Yo, relax.” Or making levels – I don't like games, where it's literally pay to win. The levels are so hard that it's actually impossible. They're like, “Oh, but if you got these upgrades, then you could totally beat this level.” Just 99 gems.

[00:26:09] T: I’m flashing back to a Verge or something article about this guy who tried to become the top Clash of Clans player. He had five different devices, and he would bring them in the shower with him, so he didn't lose his hoards or whatever.

[00:26:25] OS: I never played that one. I know that that one's pretty big. I did play oh, gosh, what's it called? It was one of the war ones. Top War. Yeah, I did play Top War for a little while. Similar concept. It was funny, because when I first started playing that game, I would chat with people in the game. I was like, “Oh, is this a game that people play?” One guy is like, “It is only the top war game that exists on mobile.” I’m like, “All right. Sure.”

Yeah. I mean, I just love those sorts of things. Yeah. Anyway, I love mobile games. That's a big part of my free time, just being able to play a little mobile game, something like that. Back in the day, I used to play Magic the Gathering, stuff like that. If you want to get wrecked in magic, I don't really play anymore, but I'll still wreck you, I guess.

[00:27:19] AR: We should chat after this, because –

[00:27:20] T: Alex is a nerd, in case you didn't know.

[00:27:22] AR: I got a group of friends. I have a nerd. I am a nerd. We should –

[00:27:27] OS: Are you asking me get wrecked? What’s up?

[00:27:29] T: That’s what it sounds like. Alex is always asking to get wrecked.

[00:27:34] AR: Yeah, always. I used to do competitive –

[00:27:37] OS: Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's go.

[00:27:39] T: That's even funnier if I pretend I don't know what Magic the Gathering is. You’re just like, “I was a competitive magician."

[00:27:49] OS: For the listeners.

[00:27:50] AR: I did competitive illusions.

[00:27:53] OS: For the listeners that don't know, it is a trading card game. Probably the most classic trading card game that exists out there.

[00:27:59] T: TCG, as they say in the biz.

[00:28:01] OS: TCGs.

[00:28:03] AR: Collectible TCGs.

[00:28:04] OS: Collectible. Yes. Yeah. To add on to me being a nerd when I was in college, I started the Magic the Gathering club at Northeastern, which was a lot of fun. Is a lot of fun to do that. Except, I was always so busy running stuff. I never played in the club that much. Whenever I played, I guess, people weren’t just interested. They were like, “Is he actually trash? What's up?” Because whenever I would actually play a game, people would come over and watch. I feel like, they're only watching, because they want to know if I’m trash.

Actually, a couple years ago, some friends dragged me to a tournament. They're like, “Yo, Oscar. We know you don't play.” It was one of those tournaments where it was teams. Basically, you had three players on your team, and you would face other teams of three players. They're like, “Yo, Oscar. We just need you to play. We're going to get you a deck. Don't worry about it. You're just going to play.” I went with them. It was cool, because I think we ended up dropping the tournament after the sixth round or something, it's a nine-round tournament.

I think, I was five for six in my personal seat. I was like, “Wow, I still got it. I'm still doing it. This feels good.” I was like, “Maybe I should play.” I was like, “I don't have time for this, nor should I be sinking nearly as much money.” It requires me to really get back into this. Which it's bad, because I have friends that after graduating college, they're like, “Oh, we're software engineers now. We can afford all the magic cards we want.”

[00:29:34] T: Yeah, if you think about it, trading card games were the original pay to win.

[00:29:38] OS: Yeah, in a sense. I mean, I disagree with that. Because a lot of people bring this up for magic. I disagree a little bit for magic, because they do have formats that you can play that aren't expensive to get into, which I think is pretty cool, where you can actually just be good. Especially the, I don't want to call it normal, but the most common format of Magic is just called Standard and it's you the most recent cards that are printed. You can actually just go and buy a couple packs, or not a couple packs, a lot of packs and right before the very first tournament that happens after a new set is released, if you're really good at deck building, you can actually build something that's not going to be expensive, and you could theoretically wreck people in that short period of time. You have a week. It's a very short period of time that you have.

I always would laugh, because I would try and put some garbage together to see like, oh, how it would do or whatever. It only happened once. One time, I was able to put together a deck that ended up becoming one of the top decks in the meta, which was really fun. I was like, “Wow, maybe I don't suck.” Which is pretty fun. Usually, they were just terrible and not good.

[00:30:55] T: I like how we keep on vacillating between, “I'm going to wreck all of you, and maybe I don't suck.” Change enders.

[00:31:02] OS: That's how I live my life on a daily. I'm going to say that everyone listening should do the same. Find the things that you think you're awesome at. Also, find the things that you think that you can learn and keep growing.

[00:31:15] T: It's that meme. “I’m a genius. Oh, no.”

[00:31:18] OS: Exactly. This is how I feel all the time. Because when I come up with something really clever, I'm really proud of myself. I'll have that really high self-esteem for five minutes where I'm like, “Oh, yeah. This, oh. This code, ah, it's amazing.” Then five minutes later, I'll be like, “This is terrible. Honestly, I should quit programming.” That's okay. I think, it's fine to have the ups and downs and just understanding what things you're good at, and what things you can work on in all sorts of things.

Yeah, outside of video games and other nerd stuff, like trading card games, I do like music. When I get a chance, I do have a piano at home that I'll play occasionally. I haven't gotten to play it. Really, I haven't gotten played in two months.

[00:32:03] T: A grand piano, an upright, an electric keyboard?

[00:32:07] OS: This is always a tough question for me to answer, because it's a hybrid piano.

[00:32:12] T: So you could put on the headphones at night, or whatever?

[00:32:15] OS: Yes. The thing is, so people are just like, “So it's a keyboard?” I’m like, “It's not though, because the one that I buy, it's got a real grand piano action, then lasers to interpret the signals.” Then people are like, “So it's a digital piano?” I'm like, “Technically, but it's a real one, though.” It's always really funny going back and forth between that. It's like, I swear, it's basically a real one, except it's digital.

[00:32:43] T: Grand piano action.

[00:32:44] AR: You have the mechanical keyboard of music keyboards, basically.

[00:32:48] OS: I never thought of it this way. Yes. Yes, that's exactly what it is. That’s exactly what it is.

[00:32:56] AR: It's all about the feel of the switch and how you press the buttons and oh, does it make that clicker?

[00:33:01] OS: This is so weird.

[00:33:02] AR: It’s like, does it have the right weight?

[00:33:04] T: I mean, I don't want to speak for Oscar. I find when you turn on the digital piano thing, it feels different to the actual camera on string action piano part.

[00:33:14] OS: I don't want to make this a podcast about piano technology, but that's exactly why I bought this one, was because it's actually a real action – real keys with real hammers. They're not just weighted keys. The weight is the hammer. It is actually real. Then, instead of just having –

[00:33:37] T: Oh, that's what I mean. I have a piano that it's a piano, but then you could also have digital one. The digital one, when I turn that feature on, I think, because they're preventing the hammer from hitting the string right, so it doesn't make the sound.

[00:33:49] OS: Oh, you have one of those.

[00:33:50] T: A little bit. Yeah. Is that not what you're talking about?

[00:33:53] OS: It’s not. Those are cool. I considered buying one of those. Because that's different, because that's actually a real piano, except –

[00:34:01] T: Oh, actually.

[00:34:02] OS: It is. You know what it is. No, because that’s –

[00:34:04] T: [Inaudible 00:34:04] an actual real piano, it sounds like.

[00:34:07] OS: No, that is an actual real piano, because it has real strings, and you can press a key and the hammer will hit the string. Then yeah, you have a switch where it can just not hit the string and still give you this digital output. Versus mine doesn't have strings in it at all. It has real hammers, though. Instead of having just pressure sensors or whatever, it has lasers that read the speed of the hammers and whatnot to produce the sound.

[00:34:37] AR: Yeah. Rather than hitting a string, you have a hammer that hits a laser.

[00:34:40] OS: Yeah, basically. Kind of.

[00:34:44] T: This is like, you’re like, “I have an actual real piano.” I was like, “Okay.” Then you were like, “Oh, you were talking about actual real pianos?” I’m like, “What?”

[00:34:52] OS: Yeah, it's super cool. Also, the technology person to me, I mean, they got me when I went to the piano store. I'm not going to lie. I walk in the piano store and I'm like, “Yo, I live in a small apartment in Boston. What is the realest piano I can get?” They showed me the actual real piano, where you can have it not hit the strings. Then they also showed me the thing that I bought, which – so what's actually hilarious is the reason I didn't buy the actual real one, the reason I didn't buy that one was because they had this amazing sampling for when you have your headphones on, so it sounds like a real piano.

I noticed that when I had the headphones on, when I played, it sounded better than when I had the headphones off. Because the sampling was really good. I was like, I don't really want to buy a piano where I like the digital sound better. I was like, that's so awkward. They're like, “Oh, you can spend 20 or 30 grand more and get the really fancy one.” I was like, “Yeah, no.” I was like, “No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not even that good.” That's the best part about all this. I'm not a good, everyone.

[00:36:05] T: But we are going to get wrecked when we hear you play piano. 

[00:36:08] AR: Yeah. Have you bought all of this piano stuff, so that you can play chopsticks on it, basically?

[00:36:13] OS: I actually don't know chopsticks.

[00:36:15] T: Takes real skill.

[00:36:18] OS: I mean, for people who are trying to figure out how much of a nerd I am, most of the stuff that I play is video game music. It's stuff that makes me happy. I play as a means to relax and have fun. I don't really play as a I'm trying to be a performer.

[00:36:37] T: Not a competitive piano player.

[00:36:39] OS: Yeah. I'm not doing competitive piano. It's just to have fun and relax. I'll just play random anime music and stuff. Which is really funny, because and this is getting deep into my life. Sometimes my grandma, when she calls me, she'll be like, “Oh, my God. Can you play some piano for me?” I'll be like, “Okay, grandma.” Then I'm playing some intro to some anime, but she doesn't know that. She's like, “That's really beautiful.” I’m like, “Yeah.” That's really funny.

[00:37:13] T: I feel like, it would be hilarious if you were playing one of those intros as actually just classical music, and she's like, “Oh, Oscar.” You're just like, “Yeah, get that anime music, grandma.”

[00:37:25] OS: Yeah. No, it's funny. Yeah. I mean, I think for a lot of people, I don't think instruments have to be a hardcore thing. Just mess around and have a good time. The reason I bought a piano was because after having just a regular keyboard for a while, I did get better. I got good enough to the point where I thought I was being hampered by having the digital and I was like, I don't want to build a ton of habits if I'm not playing on a real piano. Yeah, so I bought it and then I got a piano teacher. It was great, because she would come over, and she would sit down and be like, “All right. How's it going? Oh, you're still trash this week.” I'm like, “Oh.” Then yeah, the pandemic hit. She texted me and was like, “Hey, I'm not coming back until the pandemic’s over.” Yeah, I haven't had a piano teacher in two years.

[00:38:17] T: Did she did she assign you pieces? Or would you come with like, “This is the anime that I want to play today”?

[00:38:22] OS: Yeah, mostly that. She'd be like, “What music are you working on? What music do you want to learn?” I would hand her this piece of music and she'd sit at my piano and then she would just play the whole piece perfectly, just sight reading the whole thing. I'm just standing there just like, “I can't do that.” I'm like, “Yeah, but you're here and you're here to teach me and help me be able to play this piece as beautifully as you just played it.”

Yeah. Any listeners who like Full Metal Alchemist. It's super funny, just hearing your piano teacher just bust up, “Oh, perfect. Oh, perfect. Trisha’s lullaby on your piano and be like, “Ah, that's gorgeous. That's so good.” Which is cool. Then you also learn stuff. I was learning some music from Spirited Away. Because that music’s really beautiful. One of my friends who also plays piano, except he actually had lessons as a kid. He was like, “Oh, yo. Wait, you got your piano teacher to teach you Spirited Away? Yo, that must be Bob.” Because I guess, I imagine he would never go to his piano teacher and be like, “I want to learn this trash.”

[00:39:36] T: Like, “We're going to play some Joe Hisaishi today.” They’re like, “Hell, yeah. We are.”

[00:39:43] OS: Yes. I mean, music stuff. I mean, my history of music is super complicated. I'm not going to go in any of that. Yeah, I do stuff like that. Mostly small little games here and there, doing some musical stuff. Other than that, it's mostly me on Discord. Most of the rest of my life is Discord. That's that. And getting stressed out. When I get the message, “Yo, someone just joined your Discord, I'm just stressed.” Because I'm like, “Are they going to say something? Are they going to say something? Am I going to have to respond? Am I going to have to ban them?” Because you have no idea who people are when they just join. That message is so stressful. My day job now, we use Discord in whenever we're having big announcements or something. It's like, oh, we're going to get a flood of people to Discord. Some of the other engineers are like, “Oh, yeah. That's going to be so exciting.” I'm like, “Oh, it's just going to stress me out.”

[00:40:38] T: Also, you. I love Discord. It's great.

[00:40:40] OS: Yeah. Well, that’s the one thing about Slack is that Slacks aren't public. People aren't just joining your Slack. Well, I guess you can have public links for people to join your Slack, or whatever. I feel like, that's not usually the case. In general, I love Discord as an application. I think it's really good. I think that's a whole podcast episode.

[00:41:01] T: That is a whole podcast episode.

[00:41:03] OS: Oh. Well, I was going to say, I just casually miss a whole big portion of what I do outside of work. Arguably, the most important one, which is, I'm a big foodie. I'm really into cocktails.

[00:41:16] T: Yet, you wouldn't pay $50 to get a new restaurant. Suspicious.

[00:41:26] OS: That is super sus. You're right. I will do better. In real life, I’d pay way more money to go to restaurants. Yeah, I’m definitely into restaurants and cooking. I don't get nearly as much time to cook as I would like to. Yeah, definitely. I'm pretty well versed in the Boston restaurant scene and what's good, who the solid chefs are.

[00:41:48] T: There's two restaurants in Boston. I'm kidding.

[00:41:51] OS: What's hilarious about Boston is, is all the food good? No, it's not. I'll be honest with you. It is not. You do have to know where to look. What is something that sucks, but once you know where to look, you can actually find really awesome stuff. Especially when you start recognizing chefs. I went on this harbor cruise, where you just get on a boat and go around the Boston Harbor. It was a brunch cruise, with brunch. I'm eating this brunch and I'm like, “Dang, this brunch is delicious. Why is this food so good?” I'm on this terrible boat in this dirty harbor. This food has no business –

[00:42:27] T: Really selling the Boston food scene.

[00:42:32] OS: Yeah, but I'm like, this food has no business being this good. Then I see a sign that’s like, “This brunch catered courtesy of Barbara Lynch.” I'm like, “Oh, okay. Yes, of course, I should have known. No one told me that.” I would have booked it away sooner had I known that.

[00:42:48] T: Little known fact, brunch is actually short for Barbara Lynch.

[00:42:58] OS: That's so good. I'm going to tell people that. I'm going to see if I can find her at one of her restaurants and tell her that.

[00:43:04] T: Oh, my God.

[00:43:05] OS: Just be like, “Hey, is Barbara here?”

[00:43:08] T: I got a message for her. Bring her out. Bring her to the table.

[00:43:11] OS: Just bring it out. Yeah. I mean, I've been to all of her restaurants, except for one, which I'm still looking forward to going to. Yeah, so there's that. Then, I think, even more than food, I'm into cocktails. I try to not go into that too much, because I like to be inclusive of people who don't care about alcohol, or talk about it a ton. Even though I make some mean mocktails, just going to say. I hate the word mocktail as well. I wish there's a better word.

[00:43:43] T: It makes it seem like a second-class citizen.

[00:43:46] OS: Yeah. It's way better than virgin cocktail. It's way better than that. That's just the word we got at, yes. Yeah, that's a very big part of what I'm interested in, just trying new ingredients, trying things out, finding the best places to go.

[00:44:01] T: I think we talked on our beverage Twitter space about how you're also a big fan of pickle bags.

[00:44:08] OS: Oh, yes. I love pickles. Pickles are delicious. Vinegar is delicious. When you can combine that with other things that you love, you're just going to have a good time. Or you're going to have a great time. Oh, man. Yeah, and especially, yeah, not getting too much into cocktail talk, but just having a Gibson, which is a classic vodka martini, but instead of olives, you're putting cocktail onion, so pickled onions, and just getting a splash of that pickle onion juice into the cocktails. Just absolutely delicious. Oh, man. Yeah.

[00:44:47] T: This is making me wonder though, why no pretentious Brooklyn joint has come up with a kimchi bag, or something, where you have a shot of soju, and the you had to drink a shot of kimchi juice.

[00:45:00] OS: Oh, you just invented something right there.

[00:45:01] T: Oh, no.

[00:45:03] OS: You just invented something right there. I might steal that for myself.

[00:45:07] T: Oh, my God. Let me know how it is.

[00:45:10] OS: Yeah. Oh, I'm going to try it and I'll let you know. Yeah. I mean, after it's all said and done, when I'm done on my technology journey, and I eventually retire, I think the number one thing I want to do is open a cocktail bar. That's my life path. I guess, it's two things. If I end up doing okay, I'll open a cocktail bar. If I become dummy, thick in the bank account, then I'll probably go run a winery. I think, those are the two things. I've already got the name for my cocktail bar picked out.

[00:45:44] T: I was going to say, what's the name for the winery, versus the cocktail bar?

[00:45:48] OS: The name of a cocktail bar, it'll be called Cordial. It will just be incredible. It's going to be a nice, laid-back vibe, not too full of itself, but the cocktails are going to be truly exquisite. Just absolutely fantastic. Sorry about the price of the cocktails, but it's going to be worth it. It's not going to be fancy cocktail bars you go to and the cocktails are fine, but they're $19. Won't be that. They'll actually be banging, or busting, as the kids say these days. That's that.

For the winery, I actually don't know. I've never thought about the name of the winery. I guess, that means I'm not envisioning how I'm going to get super rich. Because I haven't spent enough time thinking about, yeah, when I'm super rich and I have my winery, this is what it will be called. This is the region it will be in. I imagine, it'll be in Sonoma, probably. Unless, I don't know, I get kicked out of the states and move somewhere else to have my winery. I don't know. A lot of people like retiring in Spain. I could totally have a winery in Spain.

[00:46:50] T: Ooh, Oscar Spaincer.

[00:46:52] OS: Oscar Spaincer. Exactly. Yeah, that's huge. A lot of people are like, “Oh, can I buy you a beer?” I'm more just like, “Yo, buy me a cocktail.” I'll be a really happy camper. Yeah, that's just me.

[00:47:10] T: Nice. I actually re-found my cocktail tickets from Vue Toronto, because I think I didn't use them. Or I only used one and then somebody else gave me theirs, too. I was like, “What am I going to do with these?” I have four of them, free drink tickets that I could never use.

[00:47:27] OS: Yeah. It's sad, because you're like, these have wasted value. Even if you weren't going to get something alcoholic. You know how I feel about sparkling water.

[00:47:38] T: Yeah. When you ask for a sparkling water, or a Diet Coke, they're always like, no charge.

[00:47:42] OS: I mean, preferably, I have great, great animosity for places that will charge me when I want a sparkling water.

[00:47:52] T: What do they charge, also always have the worst sparkling water/soda. It's always flat, or not the right syrup ratio.

[00:48:03] OS: It's super sad. Quite frankly, they need to do better.

[00:48:08] T: I had a flashback to a time I ordered a seltzer, or water, or a Diet Coke or something. I said, “No lemon.” They brought it with lemon in it. I was like, “Oh, I said I wanted no lemon.” The reason I didn't want lemon is because they don't always wash the outside of the lemon. Also, I don't get the flavor of it in the drink. The guy just sticks his hand in the water, or whatever it was.

[00:48:30] OS: Don’t say that. Don’t say that. Don’t say that.

[00:48:33] T: I was, “Why would you do that?”

[00:48:36] OS: Oh, no. Oh, no. I mean, that does remind me of a time when my friends – I think, it was their sister was working in a restaurant as a hostess. Someone said, “Oh, can I get some lemon for my drink?” She just brought it out in her hand. Just like, “Here you go.” It's like, yeah. These things do happen all across America and probably the world. Don't ask for lemon in your drinks, I guess. It's the moral of the story.

[00:49:11] T: No lemon. No ice.

[00:49:13] OS: Oh, yeah. Let's not talk about ice.

[00:49:21] AR: Are we good? Do we want to wrap up?

[00:49:24] T: Oh, I'm not the host. I’m not driving this thing.

[00:49:28] OS: Yeah, we can. How should I wrap up?

[00:49:31] T: Think of something pithy and clever to say that transitions us into picks, or sum yourself up in a sentence. I will say, I do feel the rule is, if you bring up a musical instrument on the show, you have to play the closing theme for that episode on that instrument.

[00:49:51] AR: Yes.

[00:49:54] OS: If my piano were in my room, I would.

[00:49:57] T: It could be async.

[00:50:00] AR: We can record it later. It's all good.

[00:50:02] T: Yeah.

[00:50:05] OS: Okay. Well, you can mark your timer. The next thing that I say will be the witty thing that transitions us.

[00:50:11] T: Imagine if that stays on the show.

[00:50:20] OS: Alex's look of disappointment right now is amazing.

[00:50:23] T: He’s just trying to mentally prepare for how much your transition is going to wreck us.

[00:50:29] AR: Yeah.

[00:50:29] OS: No, it’s not. What was the last thing we were even talking about?

[00:50:37] AR: Drinks.

[00:50:37] OS: Oh, drinks and ice.

[00:50:38] T: Ice. No ice. You could be like, well, just you wouldn't pick a lemon out of a drink.

[00:50:45] OS: Oh, I'm going to say that. Thank you. That’s what I’m going to say. All right, here we go. Well, just like you wouldn't pick a lemon out of a drink, let's talk about our picks. Alex, what do you got for us?

[00:50:58] AR: My pick this week, I grew up listening to The Beatles. I've found that they take up a very specific place in my soul, whether I want them to or not. I have to listen to their music every once in a while, because it fills a certain need in my life.

[00:51:18] T: I think, you can get an exorcist for that. Or an exterminator.

[00:51:23] AR: Yeah, I know. Disney Plus has recently released a new documentary called The Beatles: Get Back. Basically, The Beatles had a very famous concert, their last concert that they did that was on top of the Apple Studios, where they recorded some of their last albums. This is a documentary of the month leading up to that event. They didn't know that it was going to happen. This is in the middle of The Beatles falling apart. It's fantastic and amazing to watch these people that get put up on this pedestal, being human, and the disagreements and arguments that they have and stuff like that.

It's fascinating to watch it. It's good background noise, because it's a lot of like, “Yeah, no. That's not the right lyric there. I don't think so. Maybe we should do – maybe we should write something different there.” It's a lot of that. You'll hear versions of the song where you're like, “That's not that lyric. That's not. You haven't found it yet.” Then, they eventually get it and they're like, “No, I don't think that's right.” You're like, “No, no, that's right. That's the lyric. That's the one that you want.” It's really nice. It's really good. I'm enjoying it.

[00:52:43] T: This reminds me of that tweet, where they're like, the closest you get to feeling like a ghost is when the people on the podcast you're listening to don't know what something is and you know the answer.

[00:52:52] AR: Yes. Yes, exactly. There's a lot of that. Yeah, it's been very pleasant. I've been enjoying putting that on. It’s in three parts. Each part is two and a half hours.

[00:53:10] OS: Oh, wow.

[00:53:11] AR: That's cut down from 60 hours’ worth of film and 150 hours’ worth of audio, that Peter Jackson has pieced together to make this.

[00:53:23] T: Petes together.

[00:53:27] AR: Yeah, that is my pick this week is The Beatles: Get Back on Disney Plus.

[00:53:31] OS: Sweet.

[00:53:32] T: What's the pettiest argument they had? Or Pettiest argument?

[00:53:35] AR: Well, I mean, Georgia leaves in the middle of it. It's just lots of them getting on each other's nerves, basically.

[00:53:49] OS: Nice. Tessa, what do you have for us?

[00:53:52] T: My first pick is a game that's not for me, but I feel like it's for someone. If that's you, listen up. It's a mobile game, and also a PC and various console game called Alba from UsTwo games. You basically play a kid that's trying to save a nature preserve on an island. The way that you do that is basically taking photographs of birds in theory. The thing is, the photographs that you take actually don't matter. The only thing that matters is that you can find the bird in the viewfinder of your phone, because whatever picture that gets saved is not the one that you took. It's part of what annoys me about the game. Another thing that I don't like is that the controls are opaque. Basically, you're just running around this island. There's a lot of bird and nature noises and there's weirdly buffed squirrels.

I just wish everything was a little bit more specific. The story was a little more specific. The dialogue was a little more specific. The animal designs a little more specific, because there's also a lot of littering. The number of times that I thought a piece of litter was a bird is way too high. You only unlock the ability to clean the litter at the end of the game. If that sounds appealing, then maybe you want to check that out.

[00:55:09] OS: You said it was available on mobile, so I might have to check it out.

[00:55:13] T: Yeah, is available on iOS, at least. I'm not sure about Android. Yeah, I have since moved on to No Longer Home, which is, I don't know, so far, my impression is, this feels like being in art school. Sure enough, turns out, you play an art student. That makes sense.

Next pick is a YouTube channel called [inaudible 00:55:35], or honeyjubu. Jubu means housewife. It's just, last month, my big thing was watching a bunch of Megan Wang studio vlogs, and I'm watching this it's this. There's this fascinating, I think, trend of Korean housewives that are extremely hardcore cottage core. Yet, they all have these really high-rez shoots of them just doing things around the house. That's really good production, value editing, which is a funny juxtaposition. This is another one of those. It's pretty calming. Then my last pick is, I haven't seen it yet, but season three of Lost in Space is out on Netflix. I love space shows.

[00:56:18] OS: Space.

[00:56:20] T: Yeah. Space. There's also one starring [inaudible] coming up that I'm excited about. Yep, those are my picks.

[00:56:28] OS: Amazing. For my pick today, on theme, mine is going to a lovely restaurant on your local neighborhood and just having a really nice meal. Maybe do a little bit of research, maybe something that might be even slightly pricier than you might normally get. Just go and experience it and have a good time.

If you're not yet feeling comfortable going in dining inside, and just getting a little bit colder, it's okay to order these things in, too. If you put in a little bit of effort, you can have a really good experience. Before your food comes, like going and taking your plates and warming them up in the oven a little bit, so they're nice and ready, so you can get the food out onto the plates and whatnot. Just having all your dinnerware set out and whatever beverages you're going to have, making sure they're down to the right temperature.

[00:57:15] T: Beverage is multiple, of course.

[00:57:17] OS: Yes, of course. Yeah, you can do it up and have it be really nice. That's what my pick is. It's just a nice restaurant.

[00:57:24] T: Yeah, what do you said earlier, I'm really into estrus. I was like, “Oh, no. Spoilers.”

[00:57:30] OS: Yeah, definitely. With that, where people can find me on the internet? On Twitter @oscar_spen. GitHub is OSpencer. My open-source project, grain-lang.org Definitely check that out.

[00:57:45] T: I feel like, grain could also be a good name for a bar, because of the source of alcohol.

[00:57:52] OS: It sure could, couldn’t it? Really, really good. I might look into that. Yes, that's all for this week's episode. If you aren't following us on Twitter, head over and find us @enjoythevuecast. If you really like cats, you can also find us @enjoythevuecats. Be sure to subscribe to the show, and if you have time, leave a review. Remember to tell at least one friend that you enjoyed today's episode and what you enjoyed about it. If you like the show, please consider supporting us on ko-fi at ko-fi.com/enjoythevue.

Thanks for listening and until next time, enjoy the Vue.

[00:58:34] T: I love that you’re like, tell them you enjoyed it.

[00:58:39] OS: It’s more than I read it wrong and I had to back-check. I read it and I was like, I forgot – I literally forgot the line. My brain just skipped and I was like, “No, that was me telling me I enjoyed it.”

[00:58:57] T: Nice.

[END]